Interview with Ernie Schenck

I recently interviewed Ernie Schenck about his career and its fascinating aspects. He also shares insights about jr. creatives. And being in a rock band. Yes, it's the same Ernie Schenck that writes those neat articles in Communication Arts.

(excerpted from his blog. After seven years as creative director of the highly regarded advertising agency, Leonard Monahan Saabye, Ernie left in 1986 to co-found Pagano Schenck & Kay, universally considered to be one of the hottest shops of the Eighties.

He left PSK in 1989 to become a free agent. During that time, he worked on assignments for Royal Caribbean Cruise Line, Miller Lite beer, United Airlines, Dreamworks SKG, Volkswagen, Sperry Topsider, Winthrop Resorts International, Saucony and many other brands...

In 1999, he left Interpublic’s Hill Holliday in Boston to freelance and has since worked for some of the top agencies and clients in the country including Fallon, Chiat/Day, BBDO, McKinney + Silver, Publicis and Hal Riney, GSD&M, Ogilvy, Kirschenbaum & Bond, and Young & Rubicam...AdWeek has called him "one of the stars of the freelance world." Twice, he has been named to the AdWeek All Star Creative Team, both as Creative Director and Copywriter.

Ernie’s work has been consistently acknowledged at The One Show, Communication Arts awards, Cannes Film Festival, Clios, Great Britain’s D&AD awards, New York Art Directors, and others...In the United Kingdom, he has been named Print Copywriter of the Year at the Design & Art Direction awards and is one of the only American advertising creative people ever to achieve that honor...

In the 1997 Clio Awards, he won a total of 10, including the Grand Clio for client, John Hancock. A 90-second spot for John Hancock, “Sarajevo”, was an Emmy Award nominee for best commercial of the year.

A columnist and contributing editor for Communication Arts magazine and a member of the Board of Directors for The One Club for Art and Copy, Ernie works from his offices on the island of Jamestown in Narragansett Bay, Rhode Island.



How did you start out in advertising?

I started out in a wretched little shop in Providence that handled mostly what were called industrial accounts. I was there for like a year when I discovered an awards annual at a local library and that was that. It was like stumbling onto the lost treasure of the Temples. I gave my notice the next day.

I'm dying to ask this question. It seems like advertising agencies take their name from a combination of the founder's surnames (DDB, GSD&M, PSK, TBWA and others). That doesn't happen in other businesses; there's neither a Gates, Allen & Partners nor a Wozniak, Jobs & Partners. Why do you think this is?

Well, that’s changing now as you know. The thing now is to name yourself something cool like Blue Ant or Strawberry Frog or Mother or whatever. Until recently though, those kind of names would have seemed schlocky and a bit tacky. As for the names on the door, well of course, it was ego.

As a former CD of two acclaimed agencies, what does it take for an agency to get hot and stay hot?

It’s a little different now with shops like Crispin and Anomaly and stuff like that. It’s not just about cool ads anymore. Crispin redefined all that. So if you’re winning a Titanium at Cannes, you’re definitely a hot property. But I think no matter which way the shifts come in the business, you have to be really visible, you have to understand what great creative is, and of course a lot of guys think they do but they don’t. Talent is everything. You have to willing to hire people that are smarter than you. Awards shows are a big deal and will continue to be in my judgment.

I've heard that agencies go through creative cycles. Right now CP+B is obviously at the top of one. Do you think Pagano Schenck & Kay would still continue to do great work today?

I think so, yeah, although we would have had to undergo a major lobotomy to get our brains off of doing advertising. The landscape of opportunities has gotten so enormous with so many ways to communicate with people, I think we might have a little trouble adapting to that but do I think we could have made the shift? Yes.

Can you talk about how advertising has changed, perhaps grown, from the Eighties to the Nineties to now?

To me, Fallon kind of defined the 80’s. In some ways, it was a throwback style of work and it had a lot in common I think with early Bernbach. Very clean. Very quick. Not a lot of embellishment. The 90’s were different. I think it was a great time to be a writer because I think words counted for more then. I have a reputation for being a long copy freak and it’s justified. I guess that’s why I always felt so connected with a lot of the work out of Singapore. Obviously, a pretty literate population there. I think it’s pretty different now. There’s so much emphasis on design. The whole country is suffering from ADD and that’s a fact, so stuff has to be pretty quick to digest. I think it sucks personally but what are you going to do.

Where do you see it going in the future?

I think integration is going to become an even bigger deal than it is now. I think the old media forms are going to look completely different. So many people are predicting the death of the TV spot and I think they could be right. Mobile will get bigger. Branded entertainment will continue to grow but only if it gets more sophisticated than it is at the moment.

What was it like working with Tom Monahan, David Lubars, Woody Kay, Steve Bautista, and other famous creatives?

Tom is a close friend. We grew up not 5 miles from each other. We had a rock band. Monahan followed me into the business when he found out that all I did all day was look out the window thinking up funny commercials. The fact that nobody cared if you wore your hair long wasn’t exactly lost on him either ☺ Dave Lubars came to Leonard Monahan and right off I knew this guy was something special. He really had an uncanny sense for the next thing, if you know what I’m saying. And just a great work ethic. You could shoot David’s stuff down until his brain was a bloody mash and he’d still keep coming at you with great work. You didn’t mention John Doyle, whom I worked very closely in the early 90s. Without a doubt, Doyle is the best print art director I ever worked with. Brilliant sense of literacy and style.

Do you have any advertising heros? (These can be past or present)

Very few. Mark Fenske. Jim Riswold. Charlotte Moore. Janet Champ.

What's your personal creative philosophy or style?

I try to look for signs of intelligence in a brand. That’s what I want to get to. I’m not so interested in shallow solutions. I mean, I can do them but I feel a lot better when I can get my head around something substantive, something that lets me get into a place where I can touch someone in a fairly deep way. I think this is why I mention Fenske and Riswold and Janet and Charlotte. They all have that ability.

You must have presented hundreds of thousands of ideas to clients already. How did you learn how to present and sell your agency's ideas?

For most of career, I HATED presenting. Despised it. Sucked at it. I would do whatever it took to get someone else to present the work. I’ve been a stutterer all my life so that didn’t help. But lately, I seem to have come out of my shell. A lot. And I’m discovering that I actually enjoy this so there’s been a shift there. What I’ve found though is that clients really are pretty receptive if you can give them a rational point of view.

You've worked for several different agencies in several different cities. Which cities did you like working in the most? and why?

I never actually worked anywhere but Rhode Island. I did a permalance gig with GSD&M for a while but I never moved to Austin. The time with Doyle, I never actually worked in Boston. That said, I think Boston is pretty cool. Easy to get around. Great museums. Colleges. But I guess my favorite city is Jamestown. Okay, not city. Weenie little coastal village in Rhode Island. Seriously, it’s where I’ve done just about every good thing I’ve ever been associated with.

You've had a career that many a creative would die for. What are some of the highs and lows of it?

I think when Doyle Advertising went out of business in the mid-90s, I felt pretty bad about that. John and I had been on such a roll and I hated to see that end. But life went on. Another chapter started. A really high point for me was, believe it or not, leaving Pagano Schenck & Kay. It got me out into the world. It forced me to connect with so many other great people all over the country and none of that would have happened if I had stayed in my safe little cocoon.

What are the most common mistakes you observed jr. creatives make?

I absolutely hate it when juniors are so desperate to get a job, they’re willing to work for nothing just to get in the door. That’s stupid. I’d take a paying job in the mailroom before I took a junior art director job for no money. You’ve got to respect who you are and show a CD what you’re made of. Mind you, asking for the sun and moon is pretty stupid, too. You might think you know everything but you know exactly shit. The idea is to get paid fairly. The only other thing I’d say is stop relying so much on your computer to make great stuff. It’s low tech, I know, but I still think a pencil and pad are more organic and get you closer to the soul of your creative self.

What is the top ten list of advice that you have for jr. creatives?

1. Look for your inspiration anywhere but awards show books.
2. Rely less on technology when concepting. A cool layout is not an idea.
3. Show some guts
4. Be humble
5. Talk less and listen more.
6. Any bright creative person can think outside the box. The great ones can do it inside.
7. Humor isn’t everything. Get comfortable with other emotions.
8. Buy my book when it comes out this Fall.
9. Buy my book when it comes out this Fall.
10. Buy my book when it comes out this Fall(to be published by McGraw Hill in the spring of 2006).


What separates jr. creatives in the hiring process?

If you just read my top 10 list, you already know the answer to this one.